More on strange and annoying nicknames

[superbadgirl]

If Dean Winchester has referred to Sam Winchester as "kiddo*" on the television screen, I've missed it. Maybe he did it once or something, which would be easy to block out for me, but given the number of times I have seen that in fanfiction it would appear Dean calls Sam that all the time (and I rarely venture into reading SPN fic). Every time I see it I want to send feedback begging for the writer to please stop using that word. It seems, to me, to perpetuate this idea that Sam's a weak little boy who needs coddling and protection.

H/C stories can be written without infantalizing one of the characters. Really.

At least when writers abused "Danny" in SG-1 fandom, Jack actually did use that a couple of times and so there was a (somewhat sketchy, if you ask me) foundation. That got to a point where I would really have to back out of a story if I read that more than, say, five times in a couple of pages. There was also one author who did a similar thing as "kiddo." Everything would go along swimmingly, and then Jack would suddenly call Daniel, Sam and Teal'c "kiddies." WTF, man. W.T.F.

Back to SPN, I've now been thinking about other horrific characterizations. Sam has got teary-eyed a bit in the show. It's canon. So has Dean. This, however, does not mean that they'll cry at the drop of a hat. Sam thinking about a puppy being left alone because its owner got dead would not make him turn into a quivering mass of tears. It really wouldn't. Sam's a sensitive soul (or at least he was), sure, but there are limitations. I would ask people just think for a minute or two before they make either Sam or Dean burst into tears.

Funnily enough, the same thing happened in SG-1 fandom as well. There are certain stories out there that are SO smarmy it makes me cringe, stories in which Daniel and Jack are such weepy, emotional wrecks I do not recognize them at all.

I suppose it can all be chalked up to different strokes for different folks.

And now I must go because apparently I'm 2 hours behind on working for The Man (frankly, I find that bogus) and have to play catch-up. While I'm sweeping and weeding and scrubbing, I'm hoping to devise a better plan to avoid the mailman. He's persistent, that one.


*perhaps the "kiddo" thing is personal. Apparently my paternal grandfather called all of us "kiddo" and when I was about 2 1/2 or 3 I started talking more and insisted that he stop calling me that because my name wasn't Kiddo, it was SBG. My mom said that was adorable, everyone oohed and ahhed and my grandfather continued to call me kiddo, bless his heart. He died when I was 4.

Comments

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

IIRC, John called Dean "kiddo" in the teaser to the pilot. I can't recall Dean ever using that as a name for Sam, though.

Everything would go along swimmingly, and then Jack would suddenly call Daniel, Sam and Teal'c "kiddies." WTF, man. W.T.F.

That sounds somewhat perverted, doesn't it? I think that Jack did refer to Jack and Sam as "kids" maybe once. I'd have to go and watch it again, but I think it was in that episode where Jack got the pole thing stuck through his shoulder pinning him to the wall and it turned out to be a weird virus thing and Daniel figured out how to communicate with it and Sam was awesomely assertive with Hammond... I can't think of the episode title, but I think when Daniel and Sam had stayed up all night, Jack came in and told them they had to get some rest and be ready for their mission that day or something like that. I could be wrong about that, though. Hmmm...

Even so, I can't see him calling them "kiddies" like that. *g*

It really wouldn't. Sam's a sensitive soul (or at least he was), sure, but there are limitations. I would ask people just think for a minute or two before they make either Sam or Dean burst into tears.

I like that they both cry onscreen at various times, but we've never seen them break down sobbing...well, Sam was really crying a few times (John's "funeral" and at the end of Heart), but even then he wasn't really sobbing or anything.

I think that Dean cried in private somewhere, though. *g* But still...it can get a bit much if it's overdone in fics. I love crying boys, but they've shown that while they can get emotional at times, they usually hold it together, especially in front of other people.

In some stories, authors could have Sam or even Dean crying believably (for me), but in other stories, it feels like they're crying all the time for no reason. *g* I'm not sure if I could clearly state what makes it work for me, though, and why it doesn't sometimes.

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

I think that Jack did refer to Jack and Sam as "kids"

I meant Jack referred to Daniel and Sam... *g*

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Ok, I had to go and look it up on Super-Wiki.

I think the scene in the pilot you refer to is where John picks up Dean when he comes in to the nursery?

"""Dad: {Walks into room} Hey dean.

Dean: Daddy! {Runs and jumps into his father’s arms}

Dad: Hey buddy! What do ya think? You think Sammy’s read to toss around a football yet?

Dean: No, daddy.

Dad: No?

Mom: You got him?

Dad: I got him. {Turns off the light} Sweet dreams, Sam. """"

So that one is "buddy" - but could easily have been "kiddo" at that age. :))

In Scarecrow when Sam answers Dean's phone the conversation goes -

"""OHN: Sam, is that you? (SAM sits up in bed.)

SAM: Dad? Are you hurt?

JOHN: I’m fine.

SAM: We’ve been looking for you everywhere. We didn’t know where you were, if you were okay.

JOHN: Sammy, I’m all right. What about you and Dean? (At the motel, DEAN is waking up.)

SAM: We’re fine. Dad, where are you? (DEAN sits up in bed.)

JOHN: Sorry, kiddo, I can’t tell you that.

SAM: What? Why not?

DEAN: Is that Dad? """

So it seems John calls Sam kiddo even now.... but once doesn't make it a habit which is where the annoyance usually comes in.

I think in the show Dean is the "pretty" crier, the tears roll but his face usually remains controlled. Sam though is a real blubber - which is another adorable difference between the two of them. At John's funeral Sam looked about 12 years old - so sad... ::sniff:::

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Oh and just because...here's the Something Wicked exchange.

""""""JOHN: All right. You know the drill, Dean. If anybody calls, you don’t pick up. If it’s me, I’ll ring once and then call back. You got that?

YOUNG DEAN: Mmhmm. Don’t answer the phone unless it rings once first.

JOHN: Come on, dude, look alive. This stuff’s important.

YOUNG DEAN: I know, it’s just—we’ve gone over it, like, a million times, and you know I’m not stupid.

JOHN: I know you’re not. But it only takes one mistake, you got that? (DEAN nods.) All right, if I’m not back Sunday night?

YOUNG DEAN: Call Pastor Jim.

JOHN: Lock the doors and windows, close the shades, and most important—

YOUNG DEAN: Watch out for Sammy. (He looks at YOUNG SAM, who is watching television.) I know.

JOHN: All right, if somethin’ tries to bust in?

YOUNG DEAN: Shoot first, ask questions later. (JOHN puts a hand on his son’s shoulder.)

JOHN: That’s my man. (He leaves the motel room. DEAN shuts the door behind him and locks it. He continues to watch SAM.)"""""


Dean is being treated with responsibility here reflected in the language...

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

Oh, cool! Thanks for looking this up! It's so cool to read the actual transcripts and rather amusing to note how much I remembered wrong. *g*

[superbadgirl]

I like that they both cry onscreen at various times, but we've never seen them break down sobbing...well, Sam was really crying a few times (John's "funeral" and at the end of Heart), but even then he wasn't really sobbing or anything.

I think that Dean cried in private somewhere, though. *g* But still...it can get a bit much if it's overdone in fics. I love crying boys, but they've shown that while they can get emotional at times, they usually hold it together, especially in front of other people.

Like I said above, I'm not anti-tears, but the situation has to merit it. And the writing has to be good, or I'm bound to think the writer has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old girl (hell, some of them might be 13 year old girls, which would explain a WHOLE lot).

It's all a matter of degrees. I'm not inclined to like any story that has them in waterworks all the time. Unless it's that spoof I plan on writing. ;)

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

Like I said above, I'm not anti-tears, but the situation has to merit it. And the writing has to be good,

Exactly, except for me the writing doesn't necessarily even have to be good, but the situation has to be believable to me and the characters written in a way that I feel is consistent with how I see them on the show--or close to that or even just written in a way that I could buy for the purposes of the story (although the latter is the most difficult *g*).

What works for me might not work for you, but in general, when the boys are sobbing every five minutes or even just having their eyes tear up a bit too much, it takes me out of the story. The emotional impact has to be there, and that usually needs to be portrayed *without* the tears. Crying can sometimes happen as a result of that, but it takes me out of the story if it seems to come from no where.

I wonder if maybe authors add that in (like the puking! *g*) to add an emotional element. I think that's what I was doing with all the puking in my story. *g* (That still amuses me, because I really have such a phobia of that. *g*) It's kind of a cheating way to try to add a layer of emotion, and it doesn't really work. When characters cry (or puke *g*) without anything backing it up--nothing written to get the characters to that place--it doesn't work.

On the show, the crying almost always works for me because the actors sell it, but in stories, I think it's much harder to make it work. The writers for the show have Jensen and Jared to do at least part of the work for them. *g*

It's all a matter of degrees. I'm not inclined to like any story that has them in waterworks all the time.

Me either. As much as I love crying boys, the story would have to be good (by my own personal standards) and have more than just a boy crying for no reason or very little reason.

Unless it's that spoof I plan on writing. ;)

Hee! I'd love to see that.