SPN: I Know What You Did Last Summer
Nov. 13th, 2008 09:59 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
superbadgirlThere are mild spoilers for next week in this.
Surprisingly, I'm not upset about the scene you know I'm talking about without going into any specifics for the reasons you might imagine. I'm irritated that it played out so that it's easy to interpret Ruby manipulating the situation and getting the blame. Because really? I can't find it in me to blame Sam - he was drunk, fucked in the head and obviously vulnerable. She threw herself on him, literally. And that's what makes me mad, even though I can't articulate it. It's the feminist in me hating the whole freaking set-up for the sex scene. I think I'm upset about not being upset with Sam. Not because he's the victim, as I see it, but because that means I have to blame a female character, and female characters have so much crap heaped on them already.
Oh, and reverse the genders in that scenario. It's icky from all angles. If a guy were being that aggressive with me and I kept saying no ... well, I'd probably still get the blame for "letting" it happen. *flashes back to getting mauled on a dance floor and having all these witnesses looking at me in disgust, not the much-bigger-than-me guy who was pawing me against my will and trying to jam his tongue down my throat*
Please, Sera Gamble and all SPN staffers, say no to sex scenes. I know you like the guys shirtless, and so do I, but EW.
The teaser for next week made it all the worse. "Gave into temptation"? Uh, sorry, but is this SexPN now? Apparently. I didn't see Sam giving into temptation so much as having it forced on him. And, okay, there's this girl they have to either kill or keep from being nabbed by demons, right, so naturally Dean's going to bed her. Because there's spare time for that. Toss in the "THE Dean" she gave him in this episode, and I'm already squicked for next week. She's a Dean groupie. I really hope that my irritation will prove to be 90% for The CW and the way they packaged up the teaser.
I will never break free of my hate/hate relationship with the CW.
I feel dirty.
Okay, you understand I had to get that off my chest, right? Sorry, it really went on longer than I intended it to.
I liked a good bit of this, actually. Poor Sam. It was nice (well, not nice, nice) to see what he went through after Dean died. He looked awful through much of it. I do think they could have spared us the necrophilia in lieu of showing Sam trying everything to get Dean out, because as it aired? It didn't actually show us Sam doing that other than the crossroads demon (that scene was really well done by JP, I thought). It showed us how messed up he was, poor thing, but why didn't they show us some of the searching for ways to save Dean, too?
Ruby accomplished the ultimate manipulation - making Sam trust her the way he trusts Dean. I don't care if she did save his life. It doesn't make her actions any less exploitative. I think it bothered me as much as it did Dean when they made him do the thank-you scene.
I wouldn't have minded a tad more about the Anna storyline. Hopefully we'll get that next week. Uh, you know, beyond the sex. (Notice how I'm mentioning the sex so much. Ugh.)
Oh, Dean. That's not fair, making Sam spill his guts when you won't spill yours. It'll come, though, I suspect.
Oh, boys, beaten to hell and gone by ... was it Alastair Dean called the demon? He had the special white eyes, too. Hmmm, but if Sam could exorcise Samhain, why couldn't he handle this guy. Not. Good. And now they don't have the knife anymore.
What is it with angels willing to kill first and ask questions later, and then yell at others for doing the same? Hmmm. I guess that shows what dire straits they're in. It does make me wonder why the dark side seems to have so much more tangible power. Not a happy thing to think about.
I think I'm going to have to let this one cool off in my brain for a while longer.
Surprisingly, I'm not upset about the scene you know I'm talking about without going into any specifics for the reasons you might imagine. I'm irritated that it played out so that it's easy to interpret Ruby manipulating the situation and getting the blame. Because really? I can't find it in me to blame Sam - he was drunk, fucked in the head and obviously vulnerable. She threw herself on him, literally. And that's what makes me mad, even though I can't articulate it. It's the feminist in me hating the whole freaking set-up for the sex scene. I think I'm upset about not being upset with Sam. Not because he's the victim, as I see it, but because that means I have to blame a female character, and female characters have so much crap heaped on them already.
Oh, and reverse the genders in that scenario. It's icky from all angles. If a guy were being that aggressive with me and I kept saying no ... well, I'd probably still get the blame for "letting" it happen. *flashes back to getting mauled on a dance floor and having all these witnesses looking at me in disgust, not the much-bigger-than-me guy who was pawing me against my will and trying to jam his tongue down my throat*
Please, Sera Gamble and all SPN staffers, say no to sex scenes. I know you like the guys shirtless, and so do I, but EW.
The teaser for next week made it all the worse. "Gave into temptation"? Uh, sorry, but is this SexPN now? Apparently. I didn't see Sam giving into temptation so much as having it forced on him. And, okay, there's this girl they have to either kill or keep from being nabbed by demons, right, so naturally Dean's going to bed her. Because there's spare time for that. Toss in the "THE Dean" she gave him in this episode, and I'm already squicked for next week. She's a Dean groupie. I really hope that my irritation will prove to be 90% for The CW and the way they packaged up the teaser.
I will never break free of my hate/hate relationship with the CW.
I feel dirty.
Okay, you understand I had to get that off my chest, right? Sorry, it really went on longer than I intended it to.
I liked a good bit of this, actually. Poor Sam. It was nice (well, not nice, nice) to see what he went through after Dean died. He looked awful through much of it. I do think they could have spared us the necrophilia in lieu of showing Sam trying everything to get Dean out, because as it aired? It didn't actually show us Sam doing that other than the crossroads demon (that scene was really well done by JP, I thought). It showed us how messed up he was, poor thing, but why didn't they show us some of the searching for ways to save Dean, too?
Ruby accomplished the ultimate manipulation - making Sam trust her the way he trusts Dean. I don't care if she did save his life. It doesn't make her actions any less exploitative. I think it bothered me as much as it did Dean when they made him do the thank-you scene.
I wouldn't have minded a tad more about the Anna storyline. Hopefully we'll get that next week. Uh, you know, beyond the sex. (Notice how I'm mentioning the sex so much. Ugh.)
Oh, Dean. That's not fair, making Sam spill his guts when you won't spill yours. It'll come, though, I suspect.
Oh, boys, beaten to hell and gone by ... was it Alastair Dean called the demon? He had the special white eyes, too. Hmmm, but if Sam could exorcise Samhain, why couldn't he handle this guy. Not. Good. And now they don't have the knife anymore.
What is it with angels willing to kill first and ask questions later, and then yell at others for doing the same? Hmmm. I guess that shows what dire straits they're in. It does make me wonder why the dark side seems to have so much more tangible power. Not a happy thing to think about.
I think I'm going to have to let this one cool off in my brain for a while longer.
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no subject
Date: 2008-11-14 12:47 pm (UTC)If all of this comes down to Ruby truly being manipulative, then I don't think I'll mind it as much. As I've said before, I honestly have no beef with romance or sex. Heck, I am romantic at heart. But both romance and sex scenes do not really fit into this show. (Yes, I know there was nothing romantic about Sam/Ruby but I am talking about in general for the show.) And with next week we see Dean/Anna, it's just more.
But I am willing to give the Ruby manipulation thing (and come on, she's Dean replacement? That IS creepy) and the "temptation" thing a shot when I see where they go with it. If both issues/scenes end up making an impact on the plot, that is cool. But if they are just CW gratuitous scenes (like usual) then I'll just roll my eyes and move on like I did the other two times on this show.
I'm hoping that this appeases the CW and they can get back to business. It's a waste of time that can better be served for plot and character.
Lookign forward to learning more about this Alastair guy and what is up with the angels. More Anna plot would have been nice, but I assume that will come next week.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-14 04:34 pm (UTC)But if they are just CW gratuitous scenes (like usual) then I'll just roll my eyes and move on like I did the other two times on this show.
Come on, now. Do you really think Sam would describe that in detail to his brother, who's adamantly on the hate-Ruby side of the fence, for any other reason besides gratuitous? ;)
no subject
Date: 2008-11-14 04:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-14 04:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-14 04:53 pm (UTC)Ain't that the truth.
I guess I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the direction Kripke has gone with Sam if I were certain it would all end positively. It will, won't it? *looks imploringly at SBG*
I get that he's horribly broken, and that this thing with Ruby was really a result of some deep self-loathing and self-anger. I just want Sam to be a hero right along with Dean. Together. The snarky, us-against-the-world, evil-fighting team they've always been. I don't want one to be more important, more special, or gooder than the other, you know?
I love 'em both. Why doesn't everyone?
no subject
Date: 2008-11-14 05:06 pm (UTC)Lord, I hope so. I think it would cleave me right in half if he made Sam turn completely and left him that way. Part of me wants Sam to be in a big showdown, on the right side even if he's using his powers, and it'll be so catastrophically bad that he'll fall down in a coma. You can't tell me the whammy he does isn't affecting his brain. He clutches at his head like it's going to explode sometimes. :(
And then he'll be in this grey place between life and death and God will finally step in and remove the demon influence.
Yes, that's the badfic in my head at the moment. It's either that or a Magic Reset Button.
I just want Sam to be a hero right along with Dean. Together. The snarky, us-against-the-world, evil-fighting team they've always been. I don't want one to be more important, more special, or gooder than the other, you know?
Yes, and I want it too. So much. I fear, though.
I love 'em both. Why doesn't everyone?
I have asked myself this question since I discovered I was being naive in thinking everyone else loved them both the way I did. I honestly don't get how anyone could say some of the things they say about either brother.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-15 11:34 pm (UTC)And it was about as sexy as a dead fish. If you'll pardon the dead reference. So Sam's not raping some possessed girl's body, but a dead possessed girl's body? Oh, I feel so much better about it now that's been cleared up. [pours the brain bleach]
I liked Anna from what little we saw of her, but I'm glad I'm not the only one a little squicked by the idea of Anna and Dean having sex because Anna's got a case of hero worship. A case of religiously based hero worship. (Note to self: Stock up on brain bleach.)
I keep wondering how Anna's powers came about without the angels knowing about her. Castiel has said they don't know everything, so I can handwave a bit.
Especially since he did tell Dean that the "sonic boom" he experienced after rising from the grave was Castiel trying to speak to him because some people can hear angels in their "natural" form. Now I'm wondering if her telekinetic powers are separate from her bring part of the Angel Radio Network. Perhaps Castiel trying to talk with Dean is what flipped that switch, since that's when it began, but it still leaves the question open of how it happened. Something unexpected, or was it part of someone's plan, divine or otherwise?
I do hope they explain what the diffent colored demon eyes signify, if anything, and why Alastair was strong enough to shrug off both being "pulled" and an attack with the knife. Perhaps it's simply he's an "old" demon and therefore has more power?
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 03:28 am (UTC)Ah, we differ here. I didn't see that as Sam rabing a dead possessed girl's body, but as a demon in a dead possessed girl's body raping Sam. And even then, rape's not quite the right word, as he did eventually give in and participate. Hmmm. It's really awful and muddy no matter how I spin it.
I'm glad I'm not the only one a little squicked by the idea of Anna and Dean having sex because Anna's got a case of hero worship. A case of religiously based hero worship. (Note to self: Stock up on brain bleach.)
The rest of the teaser looked awesome, but I'm already WTFing over that bit. I just ... WTF? Never mind the ooky context for a second, I want to know why the hell the boys are suddenly fucking onscreen. Do not want.
Perhaps Castiel trying to talk with Dean is what flipped that switch, since that's when it began, but it still leaves the question open of how it happened. Something unexpected, or was it part of someone's plan, divine or otherwise?
I think she already had the abilities. They were probably lying dormant. As for hearing angels only after Castiel began trying to talk to Dean, it's possible there weren't any angels chatting it up until then. (Which seems very weak and a continuity issue - if this war's been going on, the angels would have been talking, right?)
Perhaps it's simply he's an "old" demon and therefore has more power?
Older than Samhain? Then why haven't we heard of him. I still want to know how all these demons have been getting out. Alastair was obviously downstairs to interact with Dean, but now he's upstairs. How?
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 04:40 am (UTC)No, I actually agree with that too. It's icky from both directions, but I was focusing on the "Sam's raping a possessed girl's body" aspect because that was what had fans originally so concerned. TPTB dealt with it after a fashion, but it wasn't much of an improvement.
Rape really isn't the right word, but I can't think of one either. Ruby jumping Sam when she knew he was at a vulnerable moment makes it seem even more likely she's been doing all this to manipulate Sam. Unless TPTB are going to make this all into a red herring and she's either totally been telling the truth or else she'd been manipulating at first and then fell in luuuuuuurve.
Never mind the ooky context for a second, I want to know why the hell the boys are suddenly fucking onscreen. Do not want.
Because TPTB figure it will boost ratings is my guess.
It's lazy storytelling if they're just adding sex scenes in as padding and not making it part of the actual plot. Which is why I keep wondering whether or not they were so determined to get Sam/Ruby onscreen because it will eventually make a difference in the plot.
As for hearing angels only after Castiel began trying to talk to Dean, it's possible there weren't any angels chatting it up until then. (Which seems very weak and a continuity issue - if this war's been going on, the angels would have been talking, right?)
The war has been going on for a while, or at least one would think, but perhaps things are now coming to a head and the urgency of it made it easier for Anna to hear them? Or maybe she just tuned in to the right "frequency" once a stong enough signal made her aware of it?
Older than Samhain? Then why haven't we heard of him. I still want to know how all these demons have been getting out. Alastair was obviously downstairs to interact with Dean, but now he's upstairs. How?
We haven't really heard much about the history of individual demons, and we'd never heard about angels as a real entity until this season, so I can go along with not having heard about Alastair before.
IIRC from what Ruby has said (which one can take with a grain of salt), some were previously human but after a time they forget their humanity.
The implication was others were not human and if they're going the whole Judeo-Christian route, then the head demon is a fallen angel. So perhaps the "inner circle" are fallen angels too.
It's not like the angels and demons operate very differently, as both have to hitch a ride in a human body to walk around on earth. The only difference is their motivations, which we don't really know in full, and it's not so clear that the "side of good" really has humanity's best interests in mind either.
It's never been clear to me how the demons get out of Hell, other than being released by accident or design topside. Ruby said this time she convinced Lilith to let her go for one last chance, so that would imply Lilith and other stronger demons can somehow send their people back and forth.
The only problem with that is I just can't picture Lilith being stupid enough to believe Ruby is being truthful, if she really is. Makes me think (even more than I already did) that someone from down below is still in charge of Ruby and she's made up an elaborate story to worm her way into Sam's life to bring about his downfall.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 06:34 am (UTC)It's never been clear to me how the demons get out of Hell, other than being released by accident or design topside. Ruby said this time she convinced Lilith to let her go for one last chance, so that would imply Lilith and other stronger demons can somehow send their people back and forth
Totally. I don't understand how Ruby was able to convince Lilith at all. Does Lilith have a revolving door to Hell or something, because the last we saw her she wasn't in Hell. Why on Earth are devil's gates necessary if there are demons who can come and go as they please, and apparently let others out as well? That seems a bit of a red herring. I'm sure there are power levels (Azazel could apparently get out himself, but couldn't get others out, which is why he needed the devil's gate opened?)
Oh, I'm so confused. Long story short: I think Kripke & Co. might have bitten off more than they could chew, and they are damned lucky they've got JA and JP (and many of the recurring actors) to pull off some of the shit. I think many of us get distracted enough by how awesome they are that the WTFery in storylines can go unnoticed.
Heh. It's only when I'm really perturbed by something that I nitpick.
Makes me think (even more than I already did) that someone from down below is still in charge of Ruby and she's made up an elaborate story to worm her way into Sam's life to bring about his downfall.
Yeah, now that they've pretty well established Castiel's not really an agent for Lucifer, I'm really hoping Ruby is. It'll make how she is much easier to stomach if I know it's all an insidious plot and not twu demon wuv.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 04:45 am (UTC);)
Even after a few days, there are a few things that keep bugging me. 1) How many young and beautiful Jane Does are there lying in comas in the world...with no apparent physical damage and absolutely no one knowing who they are? One is, I think, too many. (sadly, I'm guessing that most Jane Does are old, physically damaged, and unattractive.) 2) when you wake up out of a coma in front of hospital personnel, I don't think you'll get a death certificate. 3) The shortened timeline. It just doesn't work. Ruby apparently had a very short trip to hell, despite being sent "far, far away". And I'm with you, SBG. How? Is there some kind of super-sekrit backdoor out of hell that only the Winchester hunting demons know about? Is Lucifer slinking around down there, opening time warp portals to our world for his chosen minions? Because it is supposed to be a lot harder than that, according to everything we've seen previously.
I'm still reserving judgment until next week, but they'll have to do some fancy footwork to get around some of these issues without completely contradicting their own canon.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 05:04 am (UTC)I do crumbs at random for various shows, whenever the voices in my head get loud. They've been talking a lot about Supernatural recently.
Which is odd, because I only got the running commentaries for SG-1 when I started getting pissy over the direction (or lack thereof) for the show. I'm mostly liking Supernatural at the moment. I'm thinking it's more that I tend to get pissy when TPTB start throwing in random ship and/or sex for the hell of it and start ruining characters.
1) How many young and beautiful Jane Does are there lying in comas in the world...with no apparent physical damage and absolutely no one knowing who they are? One is, I think, too many.
I've been wondering how long she'd been in a coma. Perhaps she was a generic hooker new to the trade killed by a pimp, but was in a coma long enough to heal. But I wonder how long a Jane Doe with no one to pay the bill would be kept alive.
TPTB made a point to make her a Jane Doe. Why? My only guess it's yet another way to distance the idea of "demon in someone else's body" by not giving the previous owner a name.
2) when you wake up out of a coma in front of hospital personnel, I don't think you'll get a death certificate.
And it can take weeks to get a copy of a death certificate, even when the person actually stays dead. Sometimes funeral homes will take care of that for the family, but it's not like one was involved with this death.
At best, she'd only be able to have documentation of flatlining as the plug was pulled. Which begs the questions:
(1) Did she help the owner "move out of the apartment" to trick Sam into thinking things were done properly?
(2) Did the host's soul actually depart? We only have Ruby's word for it. Totally not trusting anything she says, no matter how many times TPTB try to force the issue down our throats.
3) The shortened timeline. It just doesn't work. Ruby apparently had a very short trip to hell, despite being sent "far, far away".
I took that comment to mean she was sent to a really deep, dark section of The Pit reserved for people who pissed Lilith off. Timeline differences also get a bit of handwave because they've said time move differently. Dean was in Hell for months, but apparently the ordeal felt more like years.
This season has me feeling so torn. The overall storyline has been pretty good, but they've gone off with too many comedic episodes and too much attention on the potential sexin'.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 06:39 am (UTC)The way they played it, you really do either have to assume Ruby's not lying (ha!) or assume when a person's body dies, her soul gets booted. Like, instantly.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 06:11 pm (UTC)I know the reality is finding the right time between being absolutely certain someone's dead (not in a state that just looks dead) and having them be a rotting corpse, but we don't know what the "reality" is in this construct.
They made a point of showing Ruby coming back in a "dead" body instead of just showing up at Sam's door with a death certificate (which she wouldn't be able to get anyway), so I'm assuming they did this to push the "Ruby's good, we promise!" agenda.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 10:02 pm (UTC)Heh. I'm still more inclined to read everything she does as "Ruby's self-serving, we promise!"
I'm really curious (and mostly dreading) how they're going to get Dean to sleep with Angel Girl and not make it skeevy. Because the parallel they're hammering at means it can't be skeevy (Dean sleeps with good girl, Sam sleeps with bad girl - subtle). And, no, I find nothing romantic about a dude sleeping with a woman because it's her last night on Earth.
Hmmm.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-16 06:37 am (UTC)I know, right? I'm so very confused by all of that. With what information we have now, it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's certainly lacking in continuity. It won't make me quit watching, but I'm seriously WTFing about it at the moment.
Once the sex is over with, maybe it won't perturb me so much. Please let the sexin' be over after next week!