superbadgirl: (by whereupon)
superbadgirl ([personal profile] superbadgirl) wrote2006-04-12 07:18 pm
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Personally?

I think that in a discussion about Vala on Stargate when someone brings up the previous misdeeds of any member of SG-1 in comparison to her actions, the debate is then forfeit just like that one rule about invoking Nazism.

Because it's just insane.
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[identity profile] aizjanika.livejournal.com 2006-04-13 08:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but people do grow and change. Just 10 years ago, I was a completely, completely different person than I am now. People who knew me then probably wouldn't even recognize me now--barely. *g* People who knew me 20 years ago really wouldn't recognize me. So, in that respect, I do think that it's reasonable for Daniel to have been changed by his experiences and simply by growing up. (Yes, I know he's an adult, but I'm 45 and still growing up. *g*)

It doesn't kill my joy for someone to disagree with me, though. :-) Also, I thinkI understand your point and don't disagree with it (as far as Daniel changing). I also fell in love with the gentle soul who was so earnest about everything. We still see glimpses of him, but, yeah, the snarky Daniel isn't my favorite. OTOH, Daniel has been somewhat snarky since the movie--just less obvious about it in the past. But with Vala...that's something else entirely. I had no problem with how Daniel behaved with Vala, because she'd put him through hell and then some. If I were Daniel, I'd have been totally on edge, too. Even so, he treated her with way more respect and courtesy than she deserved. He let her down gently when she snuck into his bed. If I found a man in my bed who was not invited, there'd be no "letting down gently" or listening to reasons. There'd be screaming and calling of cops.

Honest. I'm surprised that Daniel fans turned on him for a single snarky comment. If one's reverence or disdain for a character pivots on a single line in 9 years of shows, one needs to back away and get some perspective.

Well, I don't think it was a permanent change of opinion about Daniel, but I was surprised, too, and I think it shows...well...er...something. *g*
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[identity profile] hsapiens.livejournal.com 2006-04-14 08:21 am (UTC)(link)
The Daniel of today still seems to do it for many Daniel fans. Part of his growing and changing means he's shed a lot of what "made" him Daniel in my mind. I wish I could pin down more precisely what it is that's missing so that I no longer see him as "Daniel."

Maybe it it was his superhuman ability to look past insults and injuries to what was right (a trait I could never achieve but admire greatly)? Maybe it was his earnest devotion to finding Another Way? Maybe it was his serious nature rather than his little boy, juvenile antics? I don't know, precisely, but the way he's changed just doesn't strike me as being organic growth from who he was. My priorities today might be different than they were 10 or 20 years ago, but at heart I'm still stubborn and unwavering in acting on them. I suppose that's the difference -- it feels as if Daniel has changed not only in the details but in the fundamentals?

On the other hand, the Daniel of Yore dressed in that silly lotar clown suit, baggy fatigues, and plaid. The Daniel of today wears muscle shirts, shows up naked periodically, and goes undercover in leather. I'm not complaining. Not one whit. I do so enjoy watching him. :)

As for the Vala insult, it felt phenomenally out of character to me. I tend to be a writer-basher so I wrote it off to, "Hey, we need the main characters to ignore Vala and finally piss her off so much that she'll take off on her own and save the day while gracefully exiting for most of the rest of the season." Voila! We have Daniel insulting Vala. But I suppose there are only so many years of the new characters I can watch and write it off as poor writing before I have to accept that this is who those characters are now. I didn't like the Vala insult. Not because I thought she didn't have it coming or because I thought Daniel hadn't been provoked and beyond extra-patient but because the Daniel of Yore didn't lower himself to his opponents' level. It's what made "Absolute Power" so effective. It wouldn't have had the same punch if Jack had been given the dream.

In any case, I still watch and I still celebrate when they make an episode I like or when some of what I loved about the original team accidentally ends up on screen. I don't want to wallow in negativity because then what's the point of being a fan? I don't hate the current, sexy Daniel but I don't love him like I do the bookish explorer who could lose himself in the lust for knowledge whom I first met.
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[identity profile] aizjanika.livejournal.com 2006-04-14 09:14 pm (UTC)(link)
As for the Vala insult, it felt phenomenally out of character to me.

It didn't to me, maybe because I didn't even think it was an insult. Vala was being more than annoying and inappropriate and Daniel's not a saint. He was pushed beyond the limits of any normal human. *g* Someone needed to say something to her, and that landed on Daniel. I can't believe he was as kind to her as he was, to be honest. In a way, *that* irritates me and concerns me quite a bit, whereas him telling her to shut up concerns me not at all. It's what bothers me about her being on the show full time, too. I don't see how Daniel, the Daniel that I know and love, could ever accept her on the team--or even working with her or trusting her even in small things. After all that she has done to him, it does seem a bit like a victim defending and/or caring for the abuser and I dislike that idea for Daniel's character because I think he's been shown, up to this point, not to be the kind of person who would fall for that or allow himself to be treated that way. I don't care what Vala does from this point forward or what she's been through, somehow this has to be dealt with (for me to be comfortable with it *g*) and I don't think it's going to be.

I tend to be a writer-basher so I wrote it off to, "Hey, we need the main characters to ignore Vala and finally piss her off so much that she'll take off on her own and save the day while gracefully exiting for most of the rest of the season."

I hated that whole premise of Vala running off and "saving the day." Yes, I blame the writers for that because they gave her a Descent moment, just as they did with Mitchell in Stronghold. OTOH, that reflects on Vala's character just as Stronghold does on Mitchell (and on Sam and Daniel in that one), and Descent for Jonas. And, if I'm honest, Out of Mind/Into the Fire for Sam (although there were many more such moments for Sam that were a lot more irritating than that one).

I didn't like the Vala insult. Not because I thought she didn't have it coming or because I thought Daniel hadn't been provoked and beyond extra-patient but because the Daniel of Yore didn't lower himself to his opponents' level.

I think he did sometimes--with Apophis, anyway, IMHO. :-) But again, I don't think Daniel insulted Vala at all--not in the same way that Jack did with Daniel in The Other Side.

I don't hate the current, sexy Daniel but I don't love him like I do the bookish explorer who could lose himself in the lust for knowledge whom I first met.

I still see his as the bookish explorer somewhat--just a little more jaded. I dislike it, though, when they write him as though the were Airman #1 or something like that--where it could be just any character there.

I do know what you're getting at, though. I know some people who first saw and fell in love with ascended Daniel and/or season 7 Daniel and they don't really get the love of EarlySeason Daniel--or even see the show in the same way that I do. But then again, there are others who've been watching the show for years or who watched it all in one fell swoop like I did, and they don't see it as I do either. *g* Sometimes I feel all alone out here. hehe

My priorities today might be different than they were 10 or 20 years ago, but at heart I'm still stubborn and unwavering in acting on them.

Maybe that's a difference, too. While there are some few core things about me that are the same, quite a lot of even the core of me has changed since then--and I haven't been through anything like what Daniel has. Heck, sometimes I can't even recognize me from just a few months ago. *g*