superbadgirl | Personally?

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Personally?

I think that in a discussion about Vala on Stargate when someone brings up the previous misdeeds of any member of SG-1 in comparison to her actions, the debate is then forfeit just like that one rule about invoking Nazism.

Because it's just insane.

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Yeah, it was me torturing myself by going to the thread anyway. Unfortunately, there's not much of a debate or balance to anything at all if those of us who DON'T agree with the vocal crowd don't say something now and again.

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't more people out here who don't like Vala but don't have the energy to explain why over and over and OVER again.

I've discussed this with

moonshayde a little; I think that a lot of Michael Shanks** fans are so thrilled with Vala because thus far her onscreen face time has equaled MS onscreen face time. Once their screen times are unlinked, I suspect at least some who now love her will be dissing/hating her with a passion rivaled only by their antipathy for Sam because Vala overshadows Daniel. Heck, I think she overshadows the whole team. To me, poor Sam seemed like a wet dishrag around Vala. I really didn't like that.

I like the energy Claudia Black brings to the set - and I think the actress earned her nomination for that burning scene - but it's clear to me that the writers prefer to write Vala. She's new; she's shiney; she can whatever backstory pops into their brains and they don't have to bother with 7 or 8 years of established backstory. To me, it often feels like she's having the more fun than the other actors on set, but that's highly subjective, influenced by final cuts, and I've been known to be wrong before.

**Do I really have to put in a disclaimer that I consider myself a Michael Shanks fan? And a Daniel fan?

*shiny -- darn my proofreading skills :|

I don't disagree with this. For me, though, it's not good enough reason because I don't particularly like Daniel when he's around Vala. I don't blame him for being impatient at all - she's annoying - it's just that I don't want to see that all the time, and I certainly don't want to see him as merely the straight man for her antics.

I'd rather not see him at all, frankly, or see MS move on to a different project. But that's just me: a bad Daniel fan. ;)

And you're probably right about CB/Vala, too. I suspect we'll see more and more of that as S10 progresses, which I find wholly depressing. There are lots of other non-depressing things I can do with my Friday nights, though.

*points to icon* This was almost the last time I enjoyed Daniel. As soon as he started talking...well, I did enjoy him in Enemy Mine. I'm sure there are one or two other episodes but really? There's something different about how he's being written or acted or both that has lost the spark of Daniel that I fell in love with. *shrug* What I'm trying to say is that I think I get what you're saying.

I have no real idea what we'll see as S10 progresses. I've come to expect a season opener that will have my brain swirling with all the cool season possibilities story-wise and the rest of the season will proceed to disappoint me. Whether it's because the writers don't find the same things interesting that I do or because they write Sam & Jack ship that I hate or any number of 100 other cringe-worthy things, I fully expect whatever direction they go will be the one that leaves me least happy.

Vala feels like a guest star in the Harlan-mode (Comtraya! is cute for precisely one episode): she can liven up the screen, frustrate our heroes, and even gain the audience's sympathy, but a steady diet of her does make me worry. I'm trying not to get drawn into anything about next season because no matter how I respond, they're going to make what they want to. I can only watch and decide whether I'll continue doing so.

This used to make me very unhappy but as you noted there other things to do with Friday evenings. I've slowly weaned myself from being a die-hard fan. I'm just grateful that when I get down about where the series is now, I can pop a DVD in the player and watch the team and characters I love at any time.

are so thrilled with Vala because thus far her onscreen face time has equaled MS onscreen face time.

While I didn't love Vala, I did love seeing more of Daniel in the first few episodes of season 9.

I suspect at least some who now love her will be dissing/hating her with a passion rivaled only by their antipathy for Sam because Vala overshadows Daniel.

I'm not so sure of this. I saw a huge backlash against Daniel for treating Vala so poorly--especially in Beachhead. Vala steals the Prometheus, kidnaps and tortures Daniel, virtually enslaves him with the bracelets, embarrasses him in front of his colleagues (a form of abuse), blackmails everyone at the SGC...and then Daniel tells her "a little more shut the hell up..." and Daniel's now the Devil. (And this was among some of the most vocal Daniel fans.)

That's what I've seen in fandom. *g*

I make a distinction between MS onscreen time and Daniel onscreen time. I love looking at MS - he's pretty, he's hot, I think he's talented, he seems like a nice person - but as I said up there somewhere, he isn't *Daniel* to me any longer because whatever made him Daniel is something I'm not seeing anymore. *shrug* I know most people disagree and that he is still as Daniel-esque as ever. Had seeing more of Vala equaled my seeing more of Daniel, I'd be over the moon.

I'm sure you see more of the fandom than I do; I made a conscious decision to disconnect from it because it just killed the remaining joy for me. I'm surprised that they had that reaction -- Daniel being nasty snarky is a favorite trope of much fanfiction -- but I wasn't much impressed with the "shut the hell up," either. The Daniel I fell in love with was a gentle soul. Gentle beyond human proportions I always thought but his commitment to what was right was part of what I loved about him. I'm not certain this Daniel would insist on staying to try to help a girl with chicken pox avoid trepanning after being struck down and watching the locals kill one of his teammates.

But - you know what? That's entirely a subjective matter. The majority of fans seem to disagree with me and I respect their right to do so. I am trying not to be the sort of fan who kills the joy for others. Honest. I'm surprised that Daniel fans turned on him for a single snarky comment. If one's reverence or disdain for a character pivots on a single line in 9 years of shows, one needs to back away and get some perspective.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but people do grow and change. Just 10 years ago, I was a completely, completely different person than I am now. People who knew me then probably wouldn't even recognize me now--barely. *g* People who knew me 20 years ago really wouldn't recognize me. So, in that respect, I do think that it's reasonable for Daniel to have been changed by his experiences and simply by growing up. (Yes, I know he's an adult, but I'm 45 and still growing up. *g*)

It doesn't kill my joy for someone to disagree with me, though. :-) Also, I thinkI understand your point and don't disagree with it (as far as Daniel changing). I also fell in love with the gentle soul who was so earnest about everything. We still see glimpses of him, but, yeah, the snarky Daniel isn't my favorite. OTOH, Daniel has been somewhat snarky since the movie--just less obvious about it in the past. But with Vala...that's something else entirely. I had no problem with how Daniel behaved with Vala, because she'd put him through hell and then some. If I were Daniel, I'd have been totally on edge, too. Even so, he treated her with way more respect and courtesy than she deserved. He let her down gently when she snuck into his bed. If I found a man in my bed who was not invited, there'd be no "letting down gently" or listening to reasons. There'd be screaming and calling of cops.

Honest. I'm surprised that Daniel fans turned on him for a single snarky comment. If one's reverence or disdain for a character pivots on a single line in 9 years of shows, one needs to back away and get some perspective.

Well, I don't think it was a permanent change of opinion about Daniel, but I was surprised, too, and I think it shows...well...er...something. *g*

The Daniel of today still seems to do it for many Daniel fans. Part of his growing and changing means he's shed a lot of what "made" him Daniel in my mind. I wish I could pin down more precisely what it is that's missing so that I no longer see him as "Daniel."

Maybe it it was his superhuman ability to look past insults and injuries to what was right (a trait I could never achieve but admire greatly)? Maybe it was his earnest devotion to finding Another Way? Maybe it was his serious nature rather than his little boy, juvenile antics? I don't know, precisely, but the way he's changed just doesn't strike me as being organic growth from who he was. My priorities today might be different than they were 10 or 20 years ago, but at heart I'm still stubborn and unwavering in acting on them. I suppose that's the difference -- it feels as if Daniel has changed not only in the details but in the fundamentals?

On the other hand, the Daniel of Yore dressed in that silly lotar clown suit, baggy fatigues, and plaid. The Daniel of today wears muscle shirts, shows up naked periodically, and goes undercover in leather. I'm not complaining. Not one whit. I do so enjoy watching him. :)

As for the Vala insult, it felt phenomenally out of character to me. I tend to be a writer-basher so I wrote it off to, "Hey, we need the main characters to ignore Vala and finally piss her off so much that she'll take off on her own and save the day while gracefully exiting for most of the rest of the season." Voila! We have Daniel insulting Vala. But I suppose there are only so many years of the new characters I can watch and write it off as poor writing before I have to accept that this is who those characters are now. I didn't like the Vala insult. Not because I thought she didn't have it coming or because I thought Daniel hadn't been provoked and beyond extra-patient but because the Daniel of Yore didn't lower himself to his opponents' level. It's what made "Absolute Power" so effective. It wouldn't have had the same punch if Jack had been given the dream.

In any case, I still watch and I still celebrate when they make an episode I like or when some of what I loved about the original team accidentally ends up on screen. I don't want to wallow in negativity because then what's the point of being a fan? I don't hate the current, sexy Daniel but I don't love him like I do the bookish explorer who could lose himself in the lust for knowledge whom I first met.

As for the Vala insult, it felt phenomenally out of character to me.

It didn't to me, maybe because I didn't even think it was an insult. Vala was being more than annoying and inappropriate and Daniel's not a saint. He was pushed beyond the limits of any normal human. *g* Someone needed to say something to her, and that landed on Daniel. I can't believe he was as kind to her as he was, to be honest. In a way, *that* irritates me and concerns me quite a bit, whereas him telling her to shut up concerns me not at all. It's what bothers me about her being on the show full time, too. I don't see how Daniel, the Daniel that I know and love, could ever accept her on the team--or even working with her or trusting her even in small things. After all that she has done to him, it does seem a bit like a victim defending and/or caring for the abuser and I dislike that idea for Daniel's character because I think he's been shown, up to this point, not to be the kind of person who would fall for that or allow himself to be treated that way. I don't care what Vala does from this point forward or what she's been through, somehow this has to be dealt with (for me to be comfortable with it *g*) and I don't think it's going to be.

I tend to be a writer-basher so I wrote it off to, "Hey, we need the main characters to ignore Vala and finally piss her off so much that she'll take off on her own and save the day while gracefully exiting for most of the rest of the season."

I hated that whole premise of Vala running off and "saving the day." Yes, I blame the writers for that because they gave her a Descent moment, just as they did with Mitchell in Stronghold. OTOH, that reflects on Vala's character just as Stronghold does on Mitchell (and on Sam and Daniel in that one), and Descent for Jonas. And, if I'm honest, Out of Mind/Into the Fire for Sam (although there were many more such moments for Sam that were a lot more irritating than that one).

I didn't like the Vala insult. Not because I thought she didn't have it coming or because I thought Daniel hadn't been provoked and beyond extra-patient but because the Daniel of Yore didn't lower himself to his opponents' level.

I think he did sometimes--with Apophis, anyway, IMHO. :-) But again, I don't think Daniel insulted Vala at all--not in the same way that Jack did with Daniel in The Other Side.

I don't hate the current, sexy Daniel but I don't love him like I do the bookish explorer who could lose himself in the lust for knowledge whom I first met.

I still see his as the bookish explorer somewhat--just a little more jaded. I dislike it, though, when they write him as though the were Airman #1 or something like that--where it could be just any character there.

I do know what you're getting at, though. I know some people who first saw and fell in love with ascended Daniel and/or season 7 Daniel and they don't really get the love of EarlySeason Daniel--or even see the show in the same way that I do. But then again, there are others who've been watching the show for years or who watched it all in one fell swoop like I did, and they don't see it as I do either. *g* Sometimes I feel all alone out here. hehe

My priorities today might be different than they were 10 or 20 years ago, but at heart I'm still stubborn and unwavering in acting on them.

Maybe that's a difference, too. While there are some few core things about me that are the same, quite a lot of even the core of me has changed since then--and I haven't been through anything like what Daniel has. Heck, sometimes I can't even recognize me from just a few months ago. *g*

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